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Post by mrseyre on Jun 27, 2007 1:06:24 GMT 10
The question was - "How did your life change?"
His answer - "Not that much". He says you have to make adjustments to work things out. He's saying, in response to the question about his life changing, that it hasn't because it can't.
It seems to me that some pretty wild inferences have been drawn from a reply which doesn't fit the sterotypical "HELLO" magazine response and that he's being criticised and second guessed for failing to meet expectations for which he is in no way responsible. From this reply there have been remarks to the effect that it's clear he wants nothing to do with the child and extrapolation to the point that he's apparently putting his work first, plus disapproval that he didn't say what some people thought he should, as though there is any "should" about it.
Alangaelorum points out this is a translation and it will have been edited; that's true, but even if this is a verbatim account I really don't see anything to which to take exception.
Done with this.
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Post by snowfall on Jun 27, 2007 8:32:01 GMT 10
I think there is an assumption that Goran would be an emotionally involved father. At the current time, however, that is based on what we (and I include myself) would naturally assume, but actually the only narrative we have had from Goran himself since Tin's birth - is the answer to this question and that seemed (to me) to be somewhat ambiguous in terms of his feelings. That doesn't bother me. It's certainly not intended to be a value judgement and certainly not a criticism - simply an observation.
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Post by larue on Jun 27, 2007 10:20:40 GMT 10
Is it possible that we - as Americans - expect fathers to be more invovled from the get go??? What exactly is the general consensus form our European members?? Is the mother more invlolved emotionally and physically in the earlier months/years than the father??
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Post by maggie on Jun 27, 2007 13:01:43 GMT 10
Is it possible that we - as Americans - expect fathers to be more invovled from the get go??? What exactly is the general consensus form our European members?? Is the mother more invlolved emotionally and physically in the earlier months/years than the father?? I don't so much expect it as I think it's morally right. I mean, fifty-fifty and all. Basically, it boils down to this: if a patriarichal government can mandate how women treat their bodies (and yes, I'm getting political, here), they need to take on as much responsibility as mothers. The end.
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Post by snowfall on Jun 27, 2007 19:45:18 GMT 10
Is it possible that we - as Americans - expect fathers to be more invovled from the get go??? What exactly is the general consensus form our European members?? Is the mother more invlolved emotionally and physically in the earlier months/years than the father?? These days, I'm not sure that there is much difference between most European and American women in terms of how much involvement they want, expect or receive from the father. There will be as much variation within as between each culture. Indeed, Europe covers a huge spectrum of cultures as does the States, but values around the roles of men and women in childcare probably has a much to do with social class and education as culture. As I said, my comments about Goran's response are not about what I think he should say, do or feel about Tin, but about what he did apparently say - or more accurately perhaps -did not say -when asked to say something about him.
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Post by mrseyre on Jun 28, 2007 10:24:42 GMT 10
That's disingenuous; unless there is a view about what is expected there can be no view about what he did say. Bemusment cannot arise without expectation of a response and that expectation being confounded.
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Post by snowfall on Jun 28, 2007 18:00:45 GMT 10
I'm not sure why it's disingenuous to interpret what Goran did (and, by implication, did not) say. Had I commented quizzically that he made no mention of the war in Iraq, that would have been disingenuous. As it is, he was asked how Tin had affected his life. He said that it hadn't and went on to talk about his work schedules that he wasn't even asked about. Therefore, it seems to me to be quite legitimate to comment on that, as it implies (to me) a somewhat disengaged new father. I think it is reasonable, based on the interviews Goran has given in the past and indeed others from Argentina where he expresses so much enthusiasm for things, to note the tone and content of his response.
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Post by mags on Jul 1, 2007 21:08:13 GMT 10
Maybe Goran just likes to keep his private life private and didnt feel too comfortable discussing his family so he simply went on to discuss his work. What it comes down to is that no matter how much we read or dont read into his comments the only people who know what kind of dad Goran is is his family.
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Post by mrseyre on Jul 3, 2007 5:29:01 GMT 10
And again, without a universally endorsed "script" which denotes "engagement" I'd be disinclined to infer the opposite.
In a new interview from a Chilean magazine he describes himself as a family man who is enjoying his wife and son. Perhaps this ticks the "engaged" box.
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Post by larue on Jul 3, 2007 6:15:46 GMT 10
From Maggie: I don't so much expect it as I think it's morally right. I mean, fifty-fifty and all. Basically, it boils down to this: if a patriarichal government can mandate how women treat their bodies (and yes, I'm getting political, here), they need to take on as much responsibility as mothers. The end.
Well, having been raised in the 50's/60's I can honestly say that I expect more involvement with my children from my husband than my mother did my father. I can remember coming in from playing outside all day in the early afternoon in order to have a bath and be in fresh clothing when my father came home from work. My friends did the same...well...most of them. I did have one friend that was being raised by a single parent. Saturday mornings would be my mom's morning 'off' so she could go grocery shopping without us....and my Mom had a part time job as well. It's an entirely different world now, Maggie. We knew that my Dad loved us and was proud of us but never expected him to help with homework, or baths or be necessarily 'engaged'. However, he taught me how to throw a football, play softball (but my Mom was the team coach), enjoy war movies, read and was my most ardent nemesis/ally in a political debate as I grew older. It's a different world. I just wondered if it might be the same elsewhere.
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Post by nina on Jul 12, 2007 7:37:34 GMT 10
Bleu Profond 2 (thanks Debs)
june 22, 2007
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Post by Hecate on Jul 12, 2007 7:58:39 GMT 10
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Post by daniella on Jul 12, 2007 9:25:55 GMT 10
The man on the second picture... is his father ( it appears to be ) or hers ?
Dani
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Post by francosonata on Jul 12, 2007 9:52:03 GMT 10
That's Ivana's father in the center. It doesn't look like Goran's parents are in this picture.
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Post by maggie on Jul 12, 2007 15:13:57 GMT 10
Dear god. The first pic makes me shudder. Can someone PLEASE support that baby's head?!?
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