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Post by viviclooney on Aug 14, 2007 2:51:15 GMT 10
I think the writers wanted to transition him from goofy resident to sage attending and it sort of ended up coming off more pompous than anything. This is what I was thinking....exactly. Thank you! I love how they have created an Abby that recognizes it as well. I was watching the episode that begins with Carter watching the earth movers at the site of his new hospital wing and Abby approaches. She asks if he "is surveying his kingdom." I like their conversations but just want them to stay away from one another romantically. That's when the willies start. Eeew. You're so right !!!!!! I love Carby but as friendship that kind of friendship that last forever. As friends they're the best but when romance begins it makes things weird... **Viviana**
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Post by officesupplywhore on Aug 15, 2007 2:31:34 GMT 10
As someone who owns a bunch of scripts from Seasons 8, 9 & 10, I can say that it definitely wasn't the writers intention so much as the way Noah Wyle played it. Interestingly, there were many more explicitly written stage directions for Carter than there were for anyone else, especially Abby and Luka, yet what was written as stage direction for how Carter was supposed to act/react is not how it came across on screen. It's also pretty apparent from what was written in the scripts that the Carby relationship was always intended to be dysfunctional and never meant to last.
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Post by viviclooney on Aug 15, 2007 6:24:30 GMT 10
officesupplywhore: I don't think the carbies would like that, LOL.
**Viviana**
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Post by larue on Aug 15, 2007 11:54:34 GMT 10
As someone who owns a bunch of scripts from Seasons 8, 9 & 10, Wow! How did you get them? Is it a secret?
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Post by viviclooney on Aug 15, 2007 15:46:36 GMT 10
I would love to know if you (officesupplywhore) have the same opinion from the scripts you have about the scenes between MT and GV.
**Viviana**
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Post by mrseyre on Aug 15, 2007 18:26:34 GMT 10
As someone who owns a bunch of scripts from Seasons 8, 9 & 10, I can say that it definitely wasn't the writers intention so much as the way Noah Wyle played it. Interestingly, there were many more explicitly written stage directions for Carter than there were for anyone else, especially Abby and Luka, yet what was written as stage direction for how Carter was supposed to act/react is not how it came across on screen. It's also pretty apparent from what was written in the scripts that the Carby relationship was always intended to be dysfunctional and never meant to last. That's really interesting. I can't help but wonder why NW would give us a Carter who came across as he did. He did some very good work on ER (and I have to admit that I haven't seen him in much else; "The Librarian" was no more a test of his acting skills than "Elektra" was of Goran's, and in "Donnie Darko" he just seemed like Carter redux) so I wonder whether he just felt it was more interesting to go down that route, having grown rather bored with Carter. If so I have to applaud him because it was a brave thing to do. Goran said he enjoyed playing the completely effed up Luka of S9 - perhaps Noah felt that he wanted to add another dimension to Carter. As for Carby - well, if dysfunctional is what they were going for they managed it in spades I think. Starting the relationship while Abby was drinking, the arrogant and completely out of order confrontation with Luka and the terrible speech he gave her when they were quarantined all suggested to me that it was all too much about him for it ever to work. Add in Abby's full blown denial ("I can drink because I'm happy!") and a sort of proosal the day after she downed half a bottle of Tequila and it really had nowhere to go. They seemed to bring out the absolute worst in each other and I ended up not liking either of them much. Unfortunately it resulted in an unspeakably dreary season; with Luka being tortured too it was horrible. I know it's an article of Carby faith that both Noah and Maura wanted Carby but when I see how NW played "in love" with Thandie Newton and how MT has played "in love" with Goran I don't understand why neither NW or MT ever managed to convey any passion in this relationship. We know they can do it - so why didn't they? I can only assume that it's because they weren't intended to.
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Post by officesupplywhore on Aug 15, 2007 20:08:38 GMT 10
Do you mean about how Abby and Luka are written compared to how Carby was written? I can tell you this, I do have some scripts from Seasons 12 & 13 and again there are not a lot of stage directions for either Abby or Luka, but it's very clear, especially from the Bloodline script, that all the nuances and subtext are coming from Maura and Goran themselves.
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Post by mrseyre on Aug 15, 2007 21:39:11 GMT 10
This is drifting off topic but II agree that GV and MT have been selling it in a way that NW and MT never did, so either MT and NW decided to tank carby off their own bats or they were simply doing what they were directed to do.
It's interesting that GV and MT get few directions; perhaps because it's just understood between them and the writers what's going on; perhaps the writers equally knew what NW wanted to do with Carter and were trying to exercise some sort of control over him, hence the heavy direction. If that's what they were trying to do then NW beat them!
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Post by officesupplywhore on Aug 15, 2007 23:29:02 GMT 10
It is off topic, but I was answering a question that was specifically asked of me. Considering what's written in the scripts, including scenes and parts of scenes that never made it to air which illustrated the point even further, I don't know that MT and NW were specifically deciding to tank Carby so much as it was written to fail. Besides the fact that chemistry between actors is an intangible thing that either exists or doesn't. Well, I'd have to agree there. There are actually scenes where literally paragraphs of stage direction were written for NW, yet if MT or GV got stage direction at all, it was usually simply a one word descriptor. If stage direction says that the tone of the line should be "rueful" but the actor plays it as "pissy and defiant", then I'd say the actor is definitely attempting to exert his own control over the scene.
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Post by larue on Aug 16, 2007 0:09:12 GMT 10
Besides the fact that chemistry between actors is an intangible thing that either exists or doesn't.
And I repeat.....Maura Tierney is gifted enough to convey 'chemistry' between anyone she plays against. (Jim Carrey (eww) is a case in point. ) If NW wanted to make the relationship work on screen, she could have done it. Which is probably why I was rooting for Carby in the beginning.
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Post by mrseyre on Aug 16, 2007 0:13:08 GMT 10
I don't think you can convey chemistry necessarily, but you can at least convey enthusiasm!
officesupplywhore I wasn't intending to criticise you for off topicality and I was aiding and abetting!
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Post by officesupplywhore on Aug 16, 2007 0:18:37 GMT 10
And I repeat ... "chemistry" is not something that is tangible. A gifted actor, as Maura most definitely is, can make an on-screen relationship be believable, yes, but that is not the same as having "chemistry" -- if it were, every relationship she had on-screen would be like the one between Abby and Luka -- chemistry is between two actors and IMO it's not something that if she and NW had between them that either one of them could just turn off and decide not to use.
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Post by larue on Aug 16, 2007 4:11:54 GMT 10
I think what Maura and Goran actually have is a good friendship. I never sensed that with NW at all. Having that friendship enables them to create the relationship that we see. Chemistry? Pfft. If they really had that we would be hearing about yet another off screen relationship......heh.
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Post by officesupplywhore on Aug 16, 2007 4:18:47 GMT 10
Well, it's a good thing that the showrunner David Zabel sees it a bit differently because he stated in his blog at the beginning of last season that it was the chemistry between Maura and Goran that had him put Abby and Luka back together in the first place -- and that if you're smart as a producer, you go with the chemistry.
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Post by mrseyre on Aug 16, 2007 4:27:48 GMT 10
On screen chemistry is an odd thing. I think there are a number of cases where off screen attraction doesn't translate into on-screen magic; the special fizz that two actors might have when working need not say anything about theor personal relationship as off screen individuals. The actors playing Cameron and Chase on "House" are engaged but their on screen relationship was pretty tepid.
GV and MT are clearly very comfortable together and by all accounts are good friends (and by some accounts rather more than that). To quote Ms Cranky - Lucky. And - bitch.
I've heard that MT and NW weren't particularly chummy but have no idea whether there is any truth in that. But even if that's true they should still have been able to play love scenes convincingly.
As I say, I haven't seen much else of NW's work; has he played romance convincingly in anything else?
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