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Post by givelovesolong on Apr 13, 2011 14:48:51 GMT 10
I think it’s easy to forget all that because of how different a person Luka is in S14 compared to S9. And I mean, I’m not trying to justify Luka’s behaviour, but the direction the writers took in S14 is rather inconsequential to what he got up to years earlier. For Luka, it was like that time was a learning curve – the drinking and the sleeping around was about him feeling like he had nothing, that he was lost – and he just kept making himself more and more miserable by looking for happiness in all the wrong places. And then it was like helping the Croatian boy and going to Africa sort of woke something up inside of him that had been missing for a long time; like it reminded him that there are still all these good things in life. And he did face a setback when he was with Sam and thought that he’d found those things with her, but he bounced back from that relatively well and then it was finding Abby again that finally allowed him to share all this love he had to give and also offer him something real to look forward to. He found some kind of renewal in that. Luka’s behaviour was more part of a journey for his character, to emphasise a kind of transformation and redefinition; Abby’s was a mistake that, while pertinent to her character, was really just a way of having her deal with her problems properly, once and for all, and to help her realise that what she has – a husband and a son and a good job and a life where she is, probably for the first time, actually happy and fulfilled and content – is absolutely what she wants, and something that she will work really hard for to keep forever. But it’s not like it was something Abby did deliberately. And I’m not excusing it or justifying it – I absolutely hate that it happened – but I understand that she had a problem, a really severe problem, and that it got out of control and she had no idea what she was doing that night. What happened, it wasn’t done to hurt Luka, not intentionally, and that’s something I can’t say about Richard’s affairs and whether or not he cheated because he wanted to hurt Abby. But from the little we’ve gathered about what her marriage with Richard was like, I think it’s safe to assume that it really just wasn’t a healthy relationship – particularly in the end. And I know I can say without a doubt that being unfaithful to Luka was just something that Abby never imagined she’d do. Not in a million years. Yeah, except Abby didn’t “sought out” Moretti. If anything, I believe she was lured back to his place by the promise of another drink. And also not wanting to go home to her baby in the state that she was in. After that, she really just had no idea what the hell was going on. It would not have happened had Abby been somewhat more in control of her actions and surroundings. It’s just not something I could ever imagine she’d be tempted by – not at all. Sallins, that is why you absolutely have to read Pandorama's, "Walk On" -- it is covered so, so perfectly in there. Like, seriously.
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Post by Tara on Apr 13, 2011 22:42:19 GMT 10
See, replies like this are why there should be Luby classes at universities all over the world - Bree would ace any essays she had to write about them! I always assumed that Abby had also cheated on Richard, but only after he had started cheating and the marriage was pretty much over, and only drunken one-night-stands like she had with Moretti.
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Post by sallins on Apr 14, 2011 2:16:09 GMT 10
I have, its amazing, I see there is another story by Pandorama about the life in Boston or Cambridge I totally geeked out when I saw it, the first chapter was great. I hate it when the writers leave things to our imagineation, I agree that Abby would have never done that sober or even buzzed, but as drunk as she was; who knows what the booze helped her say and do.
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Post by givelovesolong on Apr 14, 2011 2:36:06 GMT 10
See, replies like this are why there should be Luby classes at universities all over the world - Bree would ace any essays she had to write about them! Haha, I agree, Tara. I would certainly turn up to classes then, too. That's a really interesting thought. I don't know if I can get there though, and that's probably because of the way she threw his affairs in his face during their confrontation in "Sand and Water" -- I would have thought he'd have come back with something along the same lines if Abby had cheated too (assuming he knew about them if they had occurred). And I don't know if she'd have brought it up the way she did if she'd been unfaithful also -- even if he did cheat first and their marriage was practically over. Then again, she does tell Ames that story about waking up in some guy's apartment -- who she didn't remember meeting -- with no idea where she was. Whose to say she hadn't cheated on Richard then? It's weird, because besides what we've seen and been told in certain episodes, and what little has been implied in others, we really don't have a clear picture of what Abby's life was like before she was introduced on the show -- at least in terms of what she was like before her sobriety; how bad her alcoholism actually was and what effects it had. I suppose what happened in S14 is as close to an example as we have, but otherwise we've kind of been left to imagine all that ourselves. I don't know -- I'm conflicted on this. I'm going to have to give it some more thought.
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Post by givelovesolong on Apr 14, 2011 3:01:18 GMT 10
Sorry, this will probably be a double post. I have, its amazing, I see there is another story by Pandorama about the life in Boston or Cambridge I totally geeked out when I saw it, the first chapter was great. There is, and yeah, I totally geeked out, too. I've been waiting forever for it to pop up. I have been in serious withdrawal from a lack of good Luby fic -- and Pandorama takes first prize in that department. It's going to be another great one. You're completely right; we don't know what it helped her to say or do, and maybe I am being extremely narrow-minded and insanely biased, but I just can't handle imagining that she'd have done anything to instigate what happened that night. It's just so much easier to imagine that Abby was missing her husband so insanely, that when Moretti put his hands on her, she could close her eyes and believe it was Luka. I can (to some extent) reconcile with and understand that. At least compared to the alternative. I still stand by the fact that she had absolutely no idea what she was doing, though. And that it was certainly at the fault of the alcohol.
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Post by sallins on Apr 14, 2011 6:36:02 GMT 10
Considering the cut line in the "Blackout" script of Abby saying or asking for Luka when she woke up in Moretti's bed that it may have been written that she did just that and closed her eyes and pretended she was with Luka, or she was dreaming about him before she woke up.
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Post by Tara on Apr 14, 2011 23:30:04 GMT 10
Then again, she does tell Ames that story about waking up in some guy's apartment -- who she didn't remember meeting -- with no idea where she was. Whose to say she hadn't cheated on Richard then? That's actually what made me think about her having other Moretti-like incidents when she and Richard were still technically married. The story she told Ames, she said it had happened nine years earlier. If we're loosely counting each season as a year, that would've taken place a couple of years before we met her, and we know she and Richard weren't officially divorced until early Season 7. But that's where we get into some timeline inconsistencies because if she was still drinking a couple of years before we're first introduced to her, that doesn't quite fit with her telling Carter in "Sand And Water" that she'd been sober for 5 years. But I do agree with you that the way she talked to Richard re: him cheating on her with "the whore", it didn't sound like she'd been unfaithful too. Maybe the story she told Ames was something that only happened once and she didn't really consider it cheating since she already thought of the marriage as being over. I just always wish they'd told us more about her relationship with Richard because I thought they were really interesting. Even when she and Carter ran into him at the museum, and she despised him by then, it still irked her to see him with a young date and she asks Carter in the car if he thought Alexis was pretty. So it felt like there was a small part of her still reacting like a wife. Well said. And with Abby, I don't want anything about her left to my weak imagination, LOL. That character was so fascinating, I wanted them to tell me every single thing about her. I'm just happy that they re-worked her between S6 and S7 and really started writing towards Maura's strengths as an actress. S6 Abby was a little too much like Lucy Knight for me, a wide-eyed med student who hasn't seen a lot and thinks she can help everyone, etc. That's why I rarely re-watch those episodes, it's not quite like watching the Abby I know and love. When S7 began and they made her much more world-weary and hardened, I thought that was such a brilliant move by TPTB. And Maura totally came alive in Abby's skin that season.
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Post by sissa on Apr 15, 2011 6:33:52 GMT 10
Then again, she does tell Ames that story about waking up in some guy's apartment -- who she didn't remember meeting -- with no idea where she was. Whose to say she hadn't cheated on Richard then? For some reason the idea of Abby cheating on Richard never crossed my mind. I have to think about it. I believe she was sober for 5 years, as she said to Carter. Maybe it´s hard for the writers to remember/keep track of things (well, at some point they didn´t know Daniela´s name) Anyway, I think she made clear that incident (she told to ames) was the uber low point of her live (well, until Moretti, I guess) and made her want to stop drinking.
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Post by givelovesolong on Apr 18, 2011 2:25:01 GMT 10
Considering the cut line in the "Blackout" script of Abby saying or asking for Luka when she woke up in Moretti's bed that it may have been written that she did just that and closed her eyes and pretended she was with Luka, or she was dreaming about him before she woke up. I think that, too. At least, that's what I would hope. And even though that's one thing I would have liked to have seen -- her calling out to Luka as she woke up -- I can't help but thank Christ that certain other parts of that script were cut. I can barely handle what we did see, so anything else? Yeah, I doubt I'd be able to have this conversation. Yeah, and I think that's a reasonable enough assumption. I still don't know if I think that, though. It's a tough one. I kind of always thought that incident occurred whilst Abby was not with Richard. And more probably after they had separated. Even though their divorce was finalised in S7, it's plausible to think they may have been apart for some time before that. (Probably not 5 years, though). But, you know, maybe Abby did wake up that morning to realise she'd cheated on her husband, and then all that -- the drinking, the blacking out, the infidelity -- acted as a catalyst; helped her finally realise that she needed to start making some serious changes in her life -- possibly beginning with the fact that she needed out of her marriage. Or that they really needed to work on it. (It's ironic, then, that an event somewhat similar had to occur in order for her to really get her problems sorted. At least she could recognise that Luka was it for her, though -- something good; something worth hanging on to -- and that he and Joe were important enough to fight and get better for). The whole "nine years" thing is obviously just another inconsistency by the writers -- much like the whole Danijela/Jasna name screw-up. It's funny, though, that they could be as specific as to say "nine years," and yet, clearly show no recognition of things already established in earlier seasons. Otherwise, someone just really sucked at math. Ugh. It is still massively annoying and disappointing to pick-up on these types of things and not be able to make sense of them, though. Yeah, same here. And I agree with wanting to know more about her relationship with Richard -- like how long they were together, and when they got married, and why, and when it all went to hell, etc. Yep, yep, yep, and yep. Although, there is something about her perceived innocence that I kind of love in S6. I take that period as sort of just getting to see all these snapshots of who she is. And I mean, I love seeing the first time she meets Luka or that great moment she has with that dying women toward the end of "Be Still My Heart". It's just kind of really nice. I can see the similarities to Lucy Knight, though, and I am extremely glad that the writers allowed us to see her character evolve into the Abby Lockhart that we all know and love.
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Post by sallins on Apr 23, 2011 6:39:07 GMT 10
Here is something I always wondered about... Who here thinks Abby was Luka's second ever?
I think she was because the Luka of season 6 did not take sex lightly and he was probably so greif stricken that he may have went out on a date here and there but never got to that point with them because he just wasn't ready until Carol came along and Luka decided it was time to move on with his life. Of course he never slept with Carol then he started dating Abby.
It's just interesting to me that Luka married the first two women he ever slept with in his life.
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Post by Martine on Apr 24, 2011 23:11:36 GMT 10
I haven't really ever thought about that before but I have to say you might be right there ... good point!
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Post by paigeelysec on Apr 25, 2011 2:16:48 GMT 10
I think Abby was definitely only Luka's second.
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Post by sissa on Apr 25, 2011 9:42:07 GMT 10
I agree, Sallins. Which makes their relationship even harder.
Of course, Abby said "You're married to a ghost" to hurt him, but I think there´s some truth in this idea. At the same time, I think she was not completely over her ex-husband/divorce. No wonder things didn´t work out.
Some seasons later (post Carter/Sam - both painful nightmares in my book) they were in a better place emotionally and could really know what they wanted and work for it (specially Abby).
I miss them.
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Post by Tara on May 18, 2011 0:36:18 GMT 10
I've been rewatching S7 and it reminded me that I keep meaning to ask this every time I watch Sailing Away....
When Luka pleads with Abby not to put herself in a position to be hurt again (by Maggie), she responds, "Well you'd be the expert on that, wouldn't you?"
So, what is everyone's take on what she meant by that?
I get that she was upset and lashing out, but I think it also had a ring of truth to it (ala "And you're married to a ghost..."). I always took it as an acknowledgment on her part that she was probably just going to end up hurting him someday or that she was already hurting him by not being as invested in their relationship as he was then. So that he was setting himself up to be hurt again just like he was hurt by the loss of Danjiela and, to a much lesser extent, Carol.
But then again, it's kind of a vague line that could be interpreted in other ways. What do you guys think?
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Post by sissa on May 18, 2011 4:33:27 GMT 10
Interesting. I think, at some point she made some conclusions like: - he is not over his lost wife (that´s why in a anger moment she said, quite fast, “you are married to a ghost”); - he was not investing in their relationship, not getting close (early on), … and that´s why she said "Well you'd be the expert on that, wouldn't you?"
So, I think those are thoughts she had in mind during that whole time.
The sad thing is, ok he was kind of “out” when they started dating, but at some point (after the Bishop, maybe) he was connecting (at least trying).
Maybe, to protect herself, she didn´t acknowledged his change. Or I could say, dare to see a possibility...
And, to make things harder, we are talking about Abby Insecurity Lockhart. Luka would have to “work” a lot to convince Abby she was worthy. And I don´t think it is something a person can do.
It kills me to say, but they both really needed some time apart. There´s no way they could make it work the way they were… Specially Abby. She had to overcome so many issues, by herself. Oh man, I could write a book about them – in portuguese, of course.
On the other hand, I can´t forgive the writers for making me watch Luka/Sam and Abby/Carter. These 2 relationships are nightmares. It was really painful. Really.
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