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Post by larue on Dec 3, 2007 0:04:04 GMT 10
Also, IMO, i don't know if anybody thinks the same but i feel Abby anger is not just directed towards Luka but also at herself for drinking again and not being able to be a stronger person?
Oh touche, Christabelle! I have thought this all along. It's a vicious cycle. I hate myself for drinking.....hate myself for not being stronger....must dull that and drink some more....liking the way the dullness feels...drink a little more Heh. Sad, and Maura is playing it to the hilt. We have seen frustrated drunk, repentent drunk, funny drunk, agonized drunk, miserable drunk and now angry drunk. Fortunatlely the cycle will be stopped before we see abusive drunk....unless you want to count dragging a sleepy baby out into the night??? Or sad drunk?? Luka's words may have stopped her in her tracks and she realizes she hasn't been there for him either. Let's hope. I have no feelings of dislike or condemnation for her actions. I just want them to work through this - together. I am trusting TPTB have the same feelings.
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Post by andrejia on Dec 3, 2007 0:05:33 GMT 10
Well....I have to disagree with your disagreement .
Since we never heard him saying that he's better off without her, you can't say that that's what he was doing. he answered her questions when she accused him of having fun. His look said it all.And "normal" Abby would never accuse him of such thing. She said to Neela that he feels comfortable there. That doesn't mean he had fun or that he'd rather be there. It means, IMO, that he's feeling good because it's his own country, his language and the people he hasn't seen since the first time they dated. If I was abroad for so long and came back, even when a sad situation occurs I'd feel a little glad to be back as well.It's where he grew up and the place he knows best how to handle. Of course it feels good. That doesn't mean he wouldn't like her to be there as well.
And in 14.08 he told her she called Moretti Mussolini. So they've been talking on a regular basis, talking about their everday stuff. Sure, it's not the same as actually being there, but I don't think he never told her he misses her and Joe for a second.
"she is his wife, she has all the rights to know where he is and what he's been doing"
And he told her; in 14.05 he said why he wasn't able to answer his phone. And honestly, they are different people. They belong to each other but I don't think any of them have the right to keep the other on a short leash. But if she has every right, then so does he. He has a right to ask what she's been up to and in whose bed she's been sleeping. But he never questioned her because he trusts her. And she should do the same.
ETA: posted at the same time with zelda,mrseyre and larue.
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Post by starbuckadidct on Dec 3, 2007 0:19:27 GMT 10
No one is saying he's responsible for her drinking, but he has his own guilt. And dragging his brother along is another one.
It's a game of two in a marriage, not a solo song. Both are responsible for what went wrong. no one is however obligated to agree with me!
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 0:25:15 GMT 10
Well that's a relief.
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Post by starbuckadidct on Dec 3, 2007 0:44:09 GMT 10
Good for you! It is rather easy to blame just one.
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 0:48:59 GMT 10
Well Abby's having a really good go at that.
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Post by starbuckadidct on Dec 3, 2007 1:03:31 GMT 10
Well Abby's having a really good go at that. Not just Abby
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 1:11:21 GMT 10
Well Abby's having a really good go at that. Not just Abby Meaning? Perhaps we should blame Luka's dad for being ill. Yes, let's do that because then Abby wouldn't have had to deal with the difficult stuff, and not had to accept that Luka had a life before her. Heard that phrase somewhere before? Perhaps at some point we'll hear from Abby why she repaid Luka's trust with none of her own. And let's see what sort of blame Luka dishes out if and when he finds out the truth of what's been going on. The fact is that luka seldom needs anyone to blame him because he does it for himself. I for one was glad to see him getting annoyed rather than just hurt by all this. I don't understand how you can so completely miss the point which has been spelt out by the writers and actors in words THIS BIG
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Post by starbuckadidct on Dec 3, 2007 1:27:46 GMT 10
Meaning? Perhaps we should blame Luka's dad for being ill. Yes, let's do that because then Abby wouldn't have had to deal with the difficult stuff, and not had to accept that Luka had a life before her. Heard that phrase somewhere before? Perhaps at some point we'll hear from Abby why she repaid Luka's trust with none of her own. And let's see what sort of blame Luka dishes out if and when he finds out the truth of what's been going on. The fact is that luka seldom needs anyone to blame him because he does it for himself. I for one was glad to see him getting annoyed rather than just hurt by all this. I don't understand how you can so completely miss the point which has been spelt out by the writers and actors in words THIS BIGIt's not a given thing. People form oppinions under circumstances. TV storylines are the same way. And to be honest the writers haven't speld out anything, there's usually a whole story behind what we in fact see. They don't just write the lines and are done with that. None of what Abby has done would have happened if Luka hadn't left, because if he had stayed, they had gone to their honeymoon, than she would have no reason to do it. And I think this is what the writers are in fact telling us. Abby is in fact mad, mad about what she has done and mad because if he hadn't gone she wouldn't have fallen for it, she would have never even considered going back to drinking. But again no one has to agree.
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 2:08:51 GMT 10
Meaning? Perhaps we should blame Luka's dad for being ill. Yes, let's do that because then Abby wouldn't have had to deal with the difficult stuff, and not had to accept that Luka had a life before her. Heard that phrase somewhere before? Perhaps at some point we'll hear from Abby why she repaid Luka's trust with none of her own. And let's see what sort of blame Luka dishes out if and when he finds out the truth of what's been going on. The fact is that luka seldom needs anyone to blame him because he does it for himself. I for one was glad to see him getting annoyed rather than just hurt by all this. I don't understand how you can so completely miss the point which has been spelt out by the writers and actors in words THIS BIGIt's not a given thing. People form oppinions under circumstances. TV storylines are the same way. And to be honest the writers haven't speld out anything, there's usually a whole story behind what we in fact see. They don't just write the lines and are done with that. None of what Abby has done would have happened if Luka hadn't left, because if he had stayed, they had gone to their honeymoon, than she would have no reason to do it. And I think this is what the writers are in fact telling us. Abby is in fact mad, mad about what she has done and mad because if he hadn't gone she wouldn't have fallen for it, she would have never even considered going back to drinking. But again no one has to agree. There is indeed a whole story behind this; the story of an alcoholic who has grown blase about her ilness and her committment to recovery. You might as well argue that none of this would have happened if Neela hadn't left that bottle of wine in the apartment. Luka did what he felt he had to do for his father. No reason for Abby to do it? This is a reason? She's an alcoholic, she doesn't need a reason, and your argument locks Luka into a relationship in which he is responsible for her recovery, and he can't be. When can he leave her alone and trust her then? How pathetic do you want to paint Abby? A woman whose husband can't have any other calls on him? An alcoholic whose sobriety is everyone's responsibility but hers, even though she can't be honest about things so that the man you think is responsible for all this can make informed decisions? Does it not strike you as significant that the things she was throwing at Luka were nonsense? That his (explained) reason for not answering her calls is on a par with getting smashed out of your mind until 2.00am without telling your husband where you are? That there is the whole Moretti thing about which Luka knows nothing but we do? Are you honestly arguing that because Luka went to his father he in some way deserves to have his wife endanger their baby and sleep with someone else? I think that the majority of posters here have seen what it is the writers are doing, and making Luka the bad guy isn't it.
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Post by andrejia on Dec 3, 2007 2:25:20 GMT 10
Well....I might be in a minority here, but I like this season so far a lot. I've never counted the days before an episode so I guess they made their point.
As for Luka and Abby...everything's been said. Although from Abby's POV, her actions show a regression, Luka has shown more development than ever. He is mad and he does something about it. In this episode, he didn't start blaming himself and said "sorry" over and over. He gave her reasonable arguments to dismiss her paranoid behaviour. He's mad and he's not going to put up with her, he isn't going to let her do it her way. He can't control this situation but he knows better it's not his fault.
And more, if at the end of last episode and the beginning of this one he was still living in his world, hoping that everything will change back to normal. But at the end of 14.09 he literally came out of the dark and decided to take matters into his own hands.
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Post by snowfall on Dec 3, 2007 2:30:12 GMT 10
That is exactly how I see it. I think we are meant to see and feel for both of them. Luka is certainly not being set up as the "bad guy", but we are getting an emotional context for Abby's relapse. What we are not getting are excuses for her behaviour. She is in full blown relapse and denial. The interactions with Coburn made that quite clear. It's not meant to be pretty, but I do think we are meant to see it from his and her perspectives.
They were both right and both wrong: she was hurt and angry as the weeks became months and could hear that he was not having a terrible time. A visit home would have been perfectly possible, yet he chose not to. He did not pick up her growing distress and she didn't tell him what was happening, but he had made that impossible anyway by telling her not to make it more difficult for him. Then he comes home with his surprise and doesn't realise how it might make her feel excluded in her own home. He also of course doesn't know that it is seriously interfering with her secret drinking.
The six months in Croatia is a ridiculous plot contrivance, but his cluelessness about her addiction has been there from the beginning. In a way, it's rather sweet because - unlike Carter - it's not how he sees and defines her - but he is clueless. She, on the other hand, is so mired in denial and anger that she can't see what it's been like for him and in that final scene, can't even let the guy tell her what has happened. He was right to walk away - she was drunk, and he was now rightfully hurt and angry.
What I see is balanced writing and a powerful chemistry between the actors. Only MT and GV could make a story like this work.
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 2:37:59 GMT 10
Abby's "wrongness" lies not in being hacked off about his absence but in what she has allowed it to do. Only she can control that. And she's at least partly to blame for his cluelessness.
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Post by snowfall on Dec 3, 2007 2:51:41 GMT 10
I agree that the relapse and the remedy are entirely her responsibility. However, by the same token, she is no more responsible for his cluelessness than he is for her relapse and her actions which have resulted from her drinking. Of course if she had been working the AA program, she would have recognized potential triggers including having alcohol in the house, but he did tell her way back that he couldn't give up alcohol and would miss it too much. That's what I mean by "balance".
I also expect the resolution to be balanced: she accepts responsibility for her drinking and does whatever she has to do to get back on the wagon, to make amends and stay sober, but he understands what his role in supporting her sobriety is - and I would hope that includes not drinking around her - or even not drinking at all.
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Post by mrseyre on Dec 3, 2007 3:07:11 GMT 10
And if she'd really been working the programme she'd have included him in her recovery, not waited for him to work it out. This is her illness, not his, she has to be the one to set the rules.
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